Pickle as a product

The purpose of this post is to present two independent ideas to the Pickle community, and ask for general sentiment feedback, mainly about the first.

  1. Moving forward, Pickle remain a cohesive “product” from a UI/UX perspective.
  2. My own possible involvement in the first.

Pickle as a product

Pickle, as a product, is comprised fundamentally of two components:

  1. The web application that customers interact with (the UI)
  2. The underlying smart contracts

Following the partnership agreement with Yearn, it was believed that the Pickle UI would adopt Curve terminology, such as Gauges, Lockers, etc.

I was against this for two reasons:

  1. First, how Curve expose their vote locking concept to their customers is confusing to understand, and there’s a lot of UX friction in the experience of putting it in place. In my own journey of understanding this mechanism, I came across many Curve customers who thought they understood it, only to discover that they didn’t (e.g. unaware of boost decay). This is also understandable, as Curve do not have product designers on the team.

  2. Second, adopting confusing Curve terminology into Pickle, will kill its own identity as a brand, and its cohesiveness as an independent product.

I discuss all this at length in this blog article (please invest the five minutes it takes to read it):

Independent of whether I’m involved in the future Pickle UI/UX, I strongly believe that product design should be a first-class priority, and that we should strive to preserve Pickle as a cohesive product experience.

(It’s probably also important to note, that in a discussion with Andre from Yearn, he clarified that it was not his intention to impose the use of Curve terminology at Pickle.)

My involvement in the Pickle product

Professionally, I lead a small team (four people) that designs and develops digital products. You can see some of our work at:

Given that DeFi is what I’m really excited about, and having been involved in Pickle for so long, I would be interested in becoming involved in the Pickle UI/UX.

I’m currently pitching my business partner on the idea of creating an interactive prototype of how I envision Pickle as a product, based on the structure of the partnership with Yearn. This would include, for example, how to present the Curve locking mechanism to the user, in a way that’s not only understandable, but delightful.

Following is the brief that I’ve given my business partner, and designer/developer:

You’ll notice some things in that brief, such as the concept of “jarring Pickles” and no mention of “DILL”. As a non-transferrable token, DILL, as a concept, doesn’t even need to be introduced to a customer. It’s unnecessary UI and conceptual friction. The only thing that matters is how many jarred Pickles they have.

Our participation would require funding, as we would be diverting resources away from other professional activities, and that would likely need to come from the Pickle Treasury.

However, a discussion now about funding would be premature. First, I need to convince my partner to implement a prototype, then I’d need to present that to you, the Pickle community, and then figure out the funding if everybody likes it.

But at least from the above brief, you can see how I’m envisioning Pickle as a product.

What to discuss now?

I don’t think it’s productive to discuss right now specific product design details like “jarring Pickles”, whether DILL is needed, etc. Those will be better discussed in the context of a working prototype. Once that’s ready, I’ll create a follow-up forum post.

What may be useful to assess here, however, is the general sentiment around the fundamental idea of preserving the identity, branding and cohesion of Pickle as a product. I suppose this is something we’re all in agreement with, but wanted to confirm.

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I’m all for it. I’ve been thinking about the Pickle UI/UX over the past month wondering how we could improve it.

I too believe we need to keep our branding right.

Thanks for taking a step forward.

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Those who have the customer relationship will win in the long term, having a good UI/UX is one of the most important aspects for that. Good UI/UX is really missing in crypto and we might be able to fill that niche if @dafacto and his organisation build a top tier UI.

I am excited about this and would be fine with spending significant amounts of our treasury for this cause.

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I’m very much in favour of keeping as much of the Pickle branding as possible, but believe this should be done in a way that doesn’t cause friction with the Yearn integration. You mention that “in a discussion with Andre from Yearn, he clarified that it was not his intention to impose the use of Curve terminology at Pickle.” – This suggests keeping at least some of the Pickle brand and “feel” shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

It might be more digestible if this was broken down into separate forum discussions…

Firstly, the branding or “product” is a wider issue than just a UI/UX perspective (although heavily connected). Perhaps a proposing an alternative nomenclature to the current Curve idea would be a good place to start. Vaults vs Jars, Farms vs Gauges etc. What is your intention for “Dill”? The term seems to have caught on already (in one way or another).

Personally, Pickles in Jars makes a lot of sense to me. It is very easy to visualise, and securing the lid suggests locking something away. It has to be said though, “Vault” serves this purpose very well too. “Gauge” is awful. It’s abstract. What is it gauging? What does it look like?

It may be worth establishing what is feasible before moving on the steps of UI etc.

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You can find a description of this in the design brief, but in short:

  1. We have Pickle Farms, where yTokens are deposited to “farm” Pickles, that one can “harvest” at any time. If we impose a fee, this could be called something on-brand, like. “cultivation fee”, or whatever. Those all fit together into a cohesive global concept.
  2. Locked Pickles can simply be Pickles “stored” in a sealed Pickle Jar. We can refer o these as Jarred Pickled. (This evens maps analogously to a real world concept, for anyone who grew up in a culture where farm crops were put in sealed Jars for a year or long-term. storage.) The fact that a non-transferrable token (what we’re calling a DILL) exists at the smart contract level doesn’t even need to be exposed at the UI level. (Andre also agrees with this.)

Anyway, these will be easily discussed if/when we have a prototype to show. Hopefully this will happen!

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Great initiative! @dafacto
I can’t wait to see what you come up with…kudos on the crusade :wink:

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Sorry, I hadn’t given that part as much attention as I should have. Very well presented. I think this is much clearer than the “gauge” idea, as well as keeping enough of the branding intact. :+1:

This has my full support. Product Design & Development should go hand-in-hand. An industry leading user experience should be a BIG part of PICKLE “re-launch” within the Yearn DeFi ecosystem. I look forward to your prototype.

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"I don’t think it’s productive to discuss right now specific product design details like “jarring Pickles”, whether DILL is needed, etc. Those will be better discussed in the context of a working prototype. Once that’s ready, I’ll create a follow-up forum post.
What may be useful to assess here, however, is the general sentiment around the fundamental idea of preserving the identity, branding and cohesion of Pickle as a product. I suppose this is something we’re all in agreement with, but wanted to confirm.

@dafacto I absolutely am in favor of preserving the identity, branding, and cohesion of $PICKLE as a product. The community is lucky to have your talents offered and this opportunity should not be missed.

I support you moving forward with prototype, or the convincing of, and we can move forward to hash out the details from there.

This is a great idea, I think the terminology it’s more inviting for newcomers and experienced people alike to use Pickle. the UX/UI can always be better so hope this gets into voting, in short it would be a site redesign or what other deliverables will the project get?

UX/UI are absolutely important. Also the Dill concept being equivalent to jarred pickles is something I fully agree with.
I think gauging is definitely a term without a firm mental conceptualization.
I think the governance aspects especially when it comes to emissions and gauges is also vital.
So yeah, def a piece of work that needs to be done. I would personally advocate to independent team approaches that are compensated well for time with a bonus to the winning approach.

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