[RFC] OKExChain emissions distribution

Turned to PIP-43 – Vote: Snapshot


Abstract

Pickle is preparing to launch on OKExChain (OEC) very shortly.

As a reinforcement to Pickle’s multi-chain, multi-layer (MCML) expansion strategy, PIP-36 approved a temporary increase to the PICKLE emissions to 0.30 PICKLEs/block (using the Ethereum mainnet’s blocktime) until the end of the year. These incentives have so far been split as 0.20 PICKLEs/block on mainnet, and 0.10 PICKLEs/block on Polygon.

The proposal authorised the Pickle multi-sig in coordination with the core team to distribute PICKLEs across Ethereum and Polygon farms as it saw fit in consultation and transparent communication with the community. Now, as the possibility of OEC farms draws closer, the stewards of the PICKLE emissions distribution look again to the community for guidance on how to split the PICKLE pie.

Proposals

The following options are being given for the community to signal their inclination.

Proposal A

For those who believe the main attraction is still mainnet, where 80% of our TVL currently resides, and where 90% of DeFi TVL is still based. The following split is suggested:

  • Ethereum mainnet: 0.20 PICKLE/block
  • Polygon: 0.05 PICKLE/block
  • OKExChain: 0.05 PICKLE/block

Proposal B

For those who believe that most opportunities lay at the frontiers, where most users who haven’t tasted the benefits of Pickle and yield maximising are. The following split is suggested:

  • Ethereum mainnet: 0.15 PICKLE/block
  • Polygon: 0.075 PICKLE/block
  • OKExChain: 0.075 PICKLE/block

Proposal C

For those who are excited about the new opportunities but have a bias towards the environments with the most traction. The following split is suggested:

  • Ethereum mainnet: 0.175 PICKLE/block
  • Polygon: 0.075 PICKLE/block
  • OKExChain: 0.05 PICKLE/block

Vote

As this is a signal vote, we want to gauge where your interest lay and your arguments. We have included an “Other” option for you to make a case for a different distribution than the three suggestions above, or a different approach altogether.

How should PICKLE emissions be distributed cross-chain?
  • Proposal A
  • Proposal B
  • Proposal C
  • Other (suggest in comments)
  • Do Nothing (no emissions for OEC)

0 voters

2 Likes

I voted C, but, I’m a bit torn on this. Splitting up by chain makes sense in general, but, I tend to believe the split should change based on where our offerings and TVL are, and re-adjust periodically. If we only have 2 or 3 pools on Okex, (as an EXAMPLE), giving it such a large weight relative to what jars we have elsewhere might make the rewards too overweighted in a few offerings.

I think we should give initial weights of 0.05 pickles/block to any new chain. As soon as we add a new chain, it should get 0.05, and ALL other chains should have rewards re-adjusted to split based on tvl ratios or profitability proportionally.

This works so long as we only launch 1 new chain every 3 months. If we start launching more chains, it won’t work so well (without increasing emissions) and we’d need to adjust those figures down.

6 Likes

I voted A, I think we should still focus where our most TVL is, still what @rawb said sounds right about giving incentives to new chains our protocol is expanding…and after a few months reviewing it is necessary if there is not so much new TVL gained…
My only concern is if we launch on a new protocol with no other auto-compounding protocol is can be interesting to boost the insensitive to attract more attention? Still we would need to like that to a specific promotion campaign for it to be truly effective i my opinion…

2 Likes

I second @rawb suggestion in that we should allocate a fixed initial ratio of the emissions to every new chain and readjust later based on performance.

I slightly prefer proposal A over C solely because I think a 58% emissions allocation to Ethereum is a bit unfair.

1 Like

Voted for A, rationale:

  • OKEx presents a huge relatively untapped opportunity with an almost entirely new audience. $1.2bn TVL with a high proportion of Chinese users, of which Pickle has very few. We have the full backing of OKEx to support our launch and ensure we get good publicity among their user base, not only on OEC but also OKExchange, which is a top 10 CEX (where Pickle is already listed). And we’ve already had discussions with some of the leading pool providers who are also excited for us to arrive. Personally I see this as having massive potential.

  • It retains equal footing with Polygon, whose team have also been very supportive of our move there and provided MATIC rewards. It means that initially at least we aren’t playing favourites. In time I think TVL/performance need to be accounted for, but upon launch we don’t know what that is for OEC.

  • the downside/risk is dropping ETH by 25% to compensate. We know that “Pickle on top” is a key driver of TVL for many Farms and at the moment 80% of the TVL sits here. However I think the risk is worth taking for the potential that OEC holds.

I almost proposed D which would be like C but upweight OEC rather than Polygon. But per my second point above I think it’s best to have a “fair launch”.

@rawb I like the thinking of a set emissions starting point for new chains, however I think we can consider this as and when the next opportunity comes along. At the moment we do not have any other chains in our sights. Plus with current emissions due to end/up for review in 4 short months everything could change again before we get to the next chain.

3 Likes

OKEXChain? Why not BSC then as it has more volume and more people available? Just curious about the rationale

Hi @Squanchy, we have direct access to the OKEx team, the OKExChain team, and are listed in OKEx the CEX for easy on/off-ramping. They have provided a lot of resources to us, and their ecosystem isn’t saturated. At the time, we had our reasons not to go to BSC, and the community did not support it. Now multi-chain, multi-layer apps are very common, and we have been to Polygon with good success. The times they are a-changin’!

2 Likes

A few comments:
1 why deploy on an empty ghost chain while Avalanche, Arbitrum and Optimism are so promising? do you think it would be reasonable to ask the DAO to vote on which chain Pickle should roll out?
2 is Okex providing incentives as well? Avalanche would certainly top up Pickle rewards
3 when will the incentives end? is this indefinite 17% of Pickle emissions to Okex chain or will these end in several weeks when Pickle deploys on other, likely more lively chains? Will Pickle DAO get a chance to stop the emissions in a month?
4 is everyone aware of the story of Sushi deployment on Okex chain? It’s a ghost town
5 While Okex are friendlies and deploying there is ok, I don’t feel comfortable to give 17% of emissions to holders of some Okex specific tokens that have no future in my view.
6 the whole process feels a behind closed doors, no announcement on discord, 2 days to discuss on forum and 2 days to vote, hard to keep up at such pace, I think this needs a longer discussion

this is a burner acct, I can’t reply

1 why deploy on an empty ghost chain while Avalanche, Arbitrum and Optimism are so promising? do you think it would be reasonable to ask the DAO to vote on which chain Pickle should roll out?

Sure it is reasonable the DAO has input in where we roll out, we have a number of tools for feedback from the DAO including an exclusive Discord channel (i.e. #dilldao). There are farms to farm and there’s $2B in TVL on the chain already. We are friendlies with OKEx and that’s mainly why we are deploying there first, there is no saying we will not deploy on the others, particularly Arbitrum as it is open and offers utility to us.

2 is Okex providing incentives as well? Avalanche would certainly top up Pickle rewards

They are providing assistance that is worth more than incentives and we are in discussions about incentives as well.

3 when will the incentives end? is this indefinite 17% of Pickle emissions to Okex chain or will these end in several weeks when Pickle deploys on other, likely more lively chains? Will Pickle DAO get a chance to stop the emissions in a month?

All our incentives are until they are changed again. These can be changed through the process of governance. Use Discord to gauge temperature, use the forum to discuss and get enough votes and then we will use Snapshot to decide.

4 is everyone aware of the story of Sushi deployment on Okex chain? It’s a ghost town

We are aware, they have not deployed there yet.

5 While Okex are friendlies and deploying there is ok, I don’t feel comfortable to give 17% of emissions to holders of some Okex specific tokens that have no future in my view.

We have an option for you in the proposal. You can vote your conscience even if you did not participate in this discussion.

6 the whole process feels a behind closed doors, no announcement on discord, 2 days to discuss on forum and 2 days to vote, hard to keep up at such pace, I think this needs a longer discussion

This is our normal process for governance. We did discuss in our Discord at length in our #dilldao channel. If you want to be in the room where it happens, you can join the #dilldao channel in Discord after verifying you own DILL with our bot. Instructions in the #dill channel.

Thanks for the comprehensive response.

I think there is a good chance that the rewards proposal will pass with some minor modifications.

A promise of a vote to review the Okex Pickle rewards ~1 month from the start of the rewards would be reasonable. Rewards could be reduced (or shifted to another chain). The indefinite nature of the current proposal and limited options to cut the rewards in the future feel a bit uncomfortable.

The current vote result could be a negotiation point to try to get some OKT on top of the Pickle rewards.

Regular 1- or 2-monthly votes to rebalance the rewards across different chains would be good. If arbitrum takes off and Okexchain does not grow, a vote can shift rewards from Okex to arbitrum.

In my subjective view, Okex is not the most reputable institution, their chain will not be able to compete with Polygon, Avalanche and true L2s, and will fade into insignificance just as previously dominant Okex CEX is slowly falling into insignificance.

Unfortunately for us in the Core team, ser, it did not pass. For us this is a moment of soul-searching since we have worked very hard on getting all ducks in order for this launch, a lot of TVL and revenue is expecting us at the end of this road, and we clearly feel this is an opportunity we should seize. The biggest lament is that we do not have sufficient feedback, some people in our #dilldao channel said they forgot to vote, or weren’t online in this past few days. Certainly, there was low turnout, but we have never had a vote in the history of Pickle Finance swayed by a couple of wallets the way we have had it here, and we most definitely, up to now, have not heard from these holders who put all their weight behind the “Do Nothing” option so we can get their view on the matter and improve how we function as a DAO.

This promise may come in a subsequent vote. Certainly, it could have been included on this recently-defeated proposal. True, the proposed distribution of emissions had no defined end but to clarify that never never meant it would be infinite or set in stone in any way. We could have communicated this better. We are probably able to launch on Arbitrum within the next 45 days, perhaps sooner. We would have always needed to do this exercise before any new chain launch until we have a better system, and likely the community would want to take from Polygon and OEC (if it has emissions at this point) to bring to Arbitrum or any new scaling solution that’s more promising than existing ones.

At the moment, we will continue our work to launch on OKExChain, without emissions if we have to, and try to make the best of the vote that just happened. OKEx, given the result of the vote, may or may not be more ready to make a commitment of rewards for us to match fully or partially, but should they do, they will likely make it conditional on us passing a PIP with some decent emissions to OEC.

In my opinion, these are all temporary solutions, with the real solution being users voting the weights of each farm, no matter where it may be, on mainnet, or by proxy in L2 or an offchain/gasless manner.

This may be the case that OKEx and OKExChain is going to fade. As a counterargument, I would say it seems to me that many CEXs are trying to survive as on-ramps to DeFi and they are able to steer their marketing and engineering resources into their hybrid chains. Particularly, these “Chinese CEXs”, given there has always been a sort of separation between Chinese technology ecosystems and “Western”/“International” ecosystems whether by government coercion or the difficulty of penetrating into the Chinese market by non-Chinese-run technology firms, protocols, or teams. What is clear is that in these hybrid chains, one can almost always experience without much lag a copy of the latest DeFi from mainnet and make some money, which means these exchanges are making money one way or another as long as these hybrid chains are viable. They will have real problems once decentralised on-ramps from fiat-to-blockchain exist and have wide adoption. However, that will come to happen long after Pickle has recouped its investment of going to OEC, which means for us … for all of us in the DILL DAO, this is still a valid opportunity to seize a this juncture.

1 Like

This all sounds very reasonable.

It would be much appreciated, if a plan to review the Okex rewards around 1 month after launch could be added to the repeat Okex vote.

Users voting the weights of each farm, no matter where it may be, on mainnet, or by proxy in L2 or an offchain/gasless manner would be great!

Looking forward to the Arbitrum launch once the Okex launch dust settles.

4 Likes

Since some Picklers remain confused about the PIP43 vote, here is a message from 0x67941779e59cefdbc61af9cb047d44c173301795:

> We agree with what chroma wrote on the pickle forum during and after the PIP43 vote. We are not fans of the Okex chain. We are not fans of how the decision has been made to deploy next on Okex rather than on Avax, Fantom, Arbitrum, Optimism… We are happy to vote in 17% emissions if DILL voters get a chance to review that in the future. DILL holders did not get a chance to vote in the decision about Okex and there is a risk that they will not get a chance to decide about future emissions for the Okex chain. We love Pickle and voice discontent about the Okex choice as we think it’s best for the protocol. Avax team could be as supportive as Okex, but their chain has a higher chance of survival. Avax would likely top up the Pickle farm rewards. We may be wrong about Okex, happy to give it the benefit of doubt. Peace. Keep up the good work.

As someone who loves Pickle, holds Dill and works on what I like to call the little brother project, Snowball, I can say with some confidence that yield optimizers are not going to receive direct incentives from the Avalanche Rush or Avalanche. I could be wrong, but that is my sentiment as I have been working on partnerships there.

Also, Snowball definitely wants to engage in some cross chain strategies with Pickle that I think could be immensely impactful and provide new innovation.

In regards to Okex, sadly I missed the vote as well. However, buy in from the core teams of platform like that are vital and truly pay off. It will truly be a missed opportunity to not put the best foot forward in establishing a presence there.

2 Likes

Very interesting points, Jomari. Good points from leekuanjew in the dilldao channel as well. It’s helpful to hear this discussion.

It seems like deploying on Avax is not the best idea. The decision to deploy on Okex now makes more sense.

2 Likes