Voting rights for P2(ETH/PICKLE) + Pickle Stakers

There seems to be a reasonable discussion for including Naked Pickle stakers into the existing governance (voting) process.

I’ve had some initial thoughts on this and just wanted to jot them down here to reference later + start the convo going for how others might imagine it could work to include them into the voting process.

I’ve been toying around with the idea of using either a “cubic” or “quadratic squared” vote qty to align their structure with the existing whale-limiting quadratic method we use today for the LP Qty of ETH/PICKLE.

Below is an example of what I’m thinking (totally up for debate and other model ideas) where I simulate the results across 4 different levels of $ amounts invested to see how it would play out under “Option 1” or “Option 2”

Imgur

Anyone else have an alternative suggestion?

An idea to “lock up” the Naked Pickles for x-days or weeks is another alternative to consider as well, but that does add another layer of complexity that may, or may not, be needed.

Thanks!
Peachy

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Nice, looks like cubic overall gives the closer figure based on $value of naked vs LP.

I feel like there will be heated discussion about the value/risk factor of each (“skin in the game”).

But overall it’s a sound theory and one I’d support. IF it’s technically possible of course …

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Thanks for the comments.
Yeah, the 1/3 seems to work logically other than it gives a higher vote count for lower amounts and less for whales.
Maybe a 1/3.5 or some other method.

You are correct about the whole “who has more skin in the game” (i.e. risk) needs to factored into the model.

Basically the eth/pickle pool is the ONLY way to get in or out of Pickle Paradise Island.

That pool is effectively the only currency exchange kiosk at our airport. As such, we need to ensure they are satisfied with the structure.

Naked pickle holders (stakers) are like coin-collectors. They want the value of them to appreciate, but without the exchange kiosk (P2 Pool) they really have no way to “access” that value materially since they can never sell them.

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In favor of all the above. I suspect there may be some technical challenges from drawing governance rights from two separate tokens though. Perhaps I’m wrong? Devs?

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Stupid question, but was is a naked pickle?

No stupid questions here my friend. It’s easy to get lost in the quickly growing taxonomy of any project.

Naked Pickle staking = Pickles staked by themselves.

Basically, the pickles staked here: https://app.pickle.finance/stake

Naked pickles don’t need to be paired up with another token like in the Pickle Power farm ETH/Pickle (ETH + Pickles 50/50) found here: https://app.pickle.finance/farms

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This is certainly needed, blows my mind to think the governance coin currently can’t vote when staked naked for such relatively low APY compared to LPs =p

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Hi guys,
I’d love to vote with my staked pickles, it makes me sad not being able to vote :cry:

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I think everyone is in universal agreement with this - just need it technically to be able to happen, which I assume needs a fair bit of engineering.

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Thanks for the reply. I also thought there’s agreement, but then I couldn’t find anything regarding if devs are going forward with it or not :slight_smile:

There is a lot going on at pickle but I would like to see this move forward. This adds more value to staking PICKLE + seems fair to have stakers participate in the vote. Peachy outlines a good approach to this.

I would add staking PICKLE for a longer period of time having more voting power without forcing a lockup period.

Thoughts from devs?

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Agree with Peachy and Mah_Dills, I think we should start thinking about how to provide vote power to naked pickles, agree that Power LPs have much more skin in the game, but i think if time spent in naked pickle jar is taken as a metric it should show that its also some skin in the game. So there has to be a way to engineer that metric to give naked pickle stakers a say!! Hope this get its due attention.!

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Been thinking about this for a while. First and foremost, I think it’s important that pickle stakers have voting rights. They’re essentially the equity holders in this protocol, and I’m really happy with PIP-15, it’s important pickle stakers receive residual profits. I’d take it one step further and also distribute the profits proportionally to pickle LP holders (based on their underlying pickles, not ETH holdings).

I think that regardless of whether someone is holding naked pickles, or in an LP, they should have proportional voting rights (ie. if someone owns 1 pickle, they have 1 vote).

Now with regards to quadratic, cubic voting etc, I’m struggling to see the benefits. On one hand you can argue it limits whale influence, but on the other hand, I would argue it disproportionately diminishes the influence of those who have significantly bought into the protocol. It’s also still entirely vulnerable to a sybil attack.

Also pointing to the equity markets (which have gone through countless iterations of trial and error with regards to voting rights), it’s notable that there aren’t any major markets which implement this form of voting structure. I appreciate we cannot mimic traditional equity markets- the high liquidity provided by pooling, combined with easy access to leverage, flash loans etc. makes it much easier to game crypto.

However all of these points relate to transactional speed, so why not simply put in a ‘time check’. Ie. to be eligible to vote, you have to have held the pickles for a two weeks, say. (The time held for eligibility will have to be longer than the maximum voting period on a proposal to be effective). This would:

a) Fairly represent the rights of all holders.
b) Prevent whales from gaming the system in the short term.
c) Promote longer term holding, whilst also not forcing holders to ‘lock up’ their pickles.
d) Should be fairly straightforward to implement, at least for naked pickle stakers.

I note the discussion about making voting power a function of time held, but I think this can get too complex, and difficult to justify (how do you judge the voting power of someone who has held pickles for a month vs someone who has held for 2 weeks). I think a binary decision is much cleaner/fairer.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

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Reviving this thread. I believe now is a right time to consider the voting rights for both ETH:PICKLE + Pickle Stakers.

From the list of Pickle holders, we can see that the percentage of the Pickle Stakers (46%) have exceeded that of the ETH:PICKLE LP.(42%). https://etherscan.io/token/0x429881672B9AE42b8EbA0E26cD9C73711b891Ca5#balances

Things that we should consider and discuss before we can put this in place.
a) Whether the same voting weightage is applied uniformly for both LPs and stakers.

Maybe @yyctrader have a math behind this?

Hey mate, credit to @0xBoxer to have put some math behind this and presenting a view for discussion. I am not sure if you have noticed, but here is a link to the latest on this discussion. [Proposal] Voting mechanism for staked Pickles

TLDR: I think we are waiting for a few days for everything to settle before this discussion is started.

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yup - @0xBoxer pointed me to the updated thread! I think we should close this / merge with the latest.

Yea agreed, to keep the forum clean, it would be great if threads could be merged or archived once they become redundant. Not sure who can do this though?